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February 16, 2011
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1:11 pm
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hletutour:
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RT @2moroDocs: Auj à 18h sur #tcchat il sera question de guides de styles. Rejoignez-nous pr partager votre expertise & apprendre! #techcomm |
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1:14 pm
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hletutour:
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RT @2moroDocs: Comment faire pour suivre le #tcchat et participer ? Toutes les infos : http://bit.ly/ejmOxZ #techcomm |
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3:10 pm
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content2000:
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looking for a good way to label a series of user-generated content when linking from a corp. site. thoughts? #techcomm #tcchat |
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3:30 pm
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TC_Chat:
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#tcchat in an hour & a half (9amPT). Topic: style guides. Corp > doc team > project. In S2, effect of mobile, UGC on style guides #techcomm |
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3:30 pm
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2moroDocs:
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#tcchat in an hour & a half (9amPT). Topic: style guides. Corp > doc team > project. In S2, effect of mobile, UGC on style guides |
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3:31 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@lrmeyer747 Thx for the RT about #tcchat - |
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3:32 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@hletutour Merci beaucoup pour le RT - #tcchat |
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3:34 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Chicago Manual of Style http://bit.ly/19gvqQ #tcchat |
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3:35 pm
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content2000:
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@2moroDocs ooo... I won't be around for S2 but looks like my UGC question might be answered then...will scan transcript tmrw... #tcchat |
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3:36 pm
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2moroDocs:
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AP Style Guide http://www.apstylebook.com/ #tcchat |
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3:40 pm
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2moroDocs:
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If anyone knows of other online editing refs (in addition to Chicago & AP) could u please tweet them for #tcchat? |
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3:41 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Speaking of AP guide, I know they officially switched to website (1 word). I'm 4 dropping hyphen in email. Maybe discuss if time? #tcchat |
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3:45 pm
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2moroDocs:
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More Chicago refs: FB http://on.fb.me/eInVX6 . Twitter http://twitter.com/ChicagoManual . #tcchat |
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3:56 pm
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lrmeyer747:
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RT @2moroDocs: More Chicago refs: FB http://on.fb.me/eInVX6 . Twitter http://twitter.com/ChicagoManual . #tcchat |
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4:09 pm
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content2000:
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@annegentle doing it manually too but using social media mining tools to find UCG. What do you call your UCG when you post it? #tcchat |
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4:22 pm
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juliov27612:
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RT @2moroDocs: Chicago Manual of Style http://bit.ly/19gvqQ #tcchat |
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4:22 pm
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juliov27612:
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RT @2moroDocs: AP Style Guide http://www.apstylebook.com/ #tcchat |
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4:25 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Just letting you know - there's a possibility that we may have some TW students sit in on a #tcchat from time to time, which would be nice. |
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4:26 pm
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vcsujith:
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RT @2moroDocs: #tcchat in an hour & a half (9amPT). Topic: style guides. Corp > doc team > project. In S2, effect of mobile, UGC on style guides |
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4:34 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Blog post for students coming momentarily... #tcchat |
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4:41 pm
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2moroDocs:
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New post: To Students Participating in #tcchat: Some Ideas http://bit.ly/gCf2od |
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5:00 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Hello everyone! Welcome to today?s S1 of #tcchat. The topic is style guides, which is a requested topic. |
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5:01 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Reminders: Add #tcchat to your tweets. Avoid using #techcomm tag as it will overwhelm that tag. Thx! Also, no proprietary info! |
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5:01 pm
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ricksapir:
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@2moroDocs LOTS of editing resources http://bit.ly/hYnMld #tcchat #techcomm |
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5:01 pm
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2moroDocs:
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I will post main questions/discussion points using @TC_Chat. Then you can open that feed & easily see current questions #tcchat |
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5:02 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Main topics: Down through hierarchy: corp > doc team > project. Also naming conv 4 UGC docs #tcchat |
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5:02 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@ricksapir Thx Rick! #tcchat |
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5:02 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Ques came in this morning re some UGC wording, hence last item. Will work it in #tcchat |
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5:03 pm
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2moroDocs:
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S2 topics: details re use of mobile, UGC, etc on style guides #tcchat |
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5:03 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Whew! At the wire this morning. Here we go. Who's here? #tcchat |
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5:04 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Will jump in w/first ques #tcchat |
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5:05 pm
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TC_Chat:
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Q1: What style considerations are there at the corporate level? Ex: corp comm., legal, ???#tcchat |
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5:05 pm
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hletutour:
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Hi there! I'm here! #tcchat |
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5:06 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@hletutour Hi Helene! #tcchat |
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5:07 pm
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2moroDocs:
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A1: I think that at the corporate level, you have Corp Comm requirements and potential legal issues #tcchat |
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5:08 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Speaking of legal, that's something TWs always need to keep in mind, IMO. #tcchat |
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5:08 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Corp comm = branding, I think #tcchat |
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5:08 pm
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ricksapir:
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A1. Brand identity and consistency, too #tcchat |
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5:09 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@ricksapir We sent that at the same time. #tcchat |
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5:10 pm
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content2000:
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@TC_Chat A1 corp has branding requirements, trademark issues (legal) etc - affects boilerplate text for sure, as well as logo etc #tcchat |
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5:10 pm
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2moroDocs:
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A1: branding: correct use of company name, terms, logos, registered trademarks - that sort of thing #tcchat |
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5:10 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Also, whether or not company name is abbreviated or not #tcchat |
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5:11 pm
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ricksapir:
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A1. At corp level, time to market (speed) is VERY important, too. #tcchat |
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5:12 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Looks like we're all thinking the same thing. Company reqs at the highest level, def trickle down to docs #tcchat |
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5:12 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Will jump to Q2: the meat of the disc #tcchat |
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5:13 pm
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TC_Chat:
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Q2: What style considerations at doc team level? Focus on formatting, caps, ??? #tcchat |
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5:14 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@ricksapir Good point. Speed very impt, esp in this real-time world #tcchat |
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5:14 pm
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hletutour:
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A2: format considerations = use of bold, italic, colors maybe #tcchat |
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5:15 pm
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kemulholland:
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@TC_Chat #tcchat Establish style guide & templates, make ppl use them, kick noncompliant items back to authors, move on. |
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5:16 pm
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content2000:
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A2 consistant voice #tcchat |
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5:16 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@kemulholland Good point. Style guide must be followed #tcchat |
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5:17 pm
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content2000:
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@kemulholland ooo yes...governance over implementing consistant style... very important #tcchat |
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5:17 pm
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CharJTF:
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You can include terms in your style guide, too. (Helpful with ESL writers.) #tcchat |
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5:18 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Who has final say on enforcing SG if no editor on team? #tcchat |
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5:18 pm
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kemulholland:
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@2moroDocs #tcchat "Consistent voice" is overrated. Agree w/@CharJTF - include a terms list in style guide. Voice will take care of itself. |
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5:18 pm
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content2000:
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Also...common example items (IP addresses etc) that apply to docs. #tcchat |
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5:19 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@charjtf Agreed. Terminology very impt #tcchat |
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5:19 pm
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kemulholland:
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@2moroDocs #tcchat One person needs to be designated to enforce style guide & template usage, other pre-publication checks. |
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5:19 pm
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hletutour:
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@2moroDocs Good question. Particularly in a very small team... I'm asking too! #tcchat |
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5:19 pm
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content2000:
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@kemulholland ooo. disgree on voice :-) Active/passive? big clash. Formal/informal? etc. At high level, it needs tobe consistent #tcchat |
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5:20 pm
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ricksapir:
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A2. Use automagic tools to fix common issues (ref http://bit.ly/fsF7xn ) Don't rely on authors to comply #tcchat |
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5:20 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Terms list becomes very impt in regulatory docs. Have written safety manuals in past. Capitalization, wording, titles very impt #tcchat |
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5:20 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Anyone have tips for regulatory, legal, medical SG reqs? #tcchat |
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5:22 pm
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content2000:
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@kemulholland ok we're in agreement then. That was my definition of consistent voice :-) Peace reigns in #tcchat again |
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5:23 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Other items for SG: structure. Ex: "Click," not "click on." table setups, "select for drop-down menus (or whatever) #tcchat |
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5:24 pm
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CharJTF:
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#tcchat Note that passive voice is sometimes OK, depending on subject. Concentrate more on sentences making sense. |
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5:24 pm
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techcommdood:
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@kemulholland @2moroDocs Chiming in late.. exactly. Style guide needs an owner/enforcer/champion. Who that is depends on your org. #tcchat |
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5:25 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Recap for SG content: formatting (bold, etc), caps, color, terms, consistency, active/passive, formal/informal, terms, structure #tcchat |
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5:26 pm
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kemulholland:
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@CharJTF Agree!! #tcchat Focus on getting information to reader effectively, don't fuss about stuff only a writer cares about. Get it done. |
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5:26 pm
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content2000:
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@techcommdood Yes... someone needs to regularly keep writers thinking/implementing that SG #tcchat |
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5:27 pm
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CharJTF:
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#tcchat Style Guide I created for current client says nothing about active/passive or formal/informal. It does provide terms and phrases. |
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5:27 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Good info, everyone. Think this will help those new to creating a SG #tcchat |
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5:27 pm
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hletutour:
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Do you include phraseology in your style guides? maybe that's what you called "structure", @2moroDocs ? #TCchat |
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5:27 pm
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GlobalScript:
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@kemulholland @2moroDocs Chiming in late.. exactly. Style guide needs an owner/enforcer/champion. Who that is depends on your org. #tcchat |
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5:27 pm
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helpstuff:
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#tcchat now taking place. Today's subject is "style guides". Join in if you can! |
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5:28 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Yes RT @hletutour: Do you include phraseology in your style guides? maybe that's what you called "structure", @2moroDocs ? #TCchat |
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5:28 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Believe me, SG discussions are often a hot topic in meetings. What writer doesn't like discussing such items? #tcchat |
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5:29 pm
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2moroDocs:
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jumping into the project SG info... #tcchat |
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5:29 pm
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CharJTF:
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@hletutour Phraseology, yes, but structure is determined by heading usage. (Also, I use headings for TOC and cross-references.) #TCchat |
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5:30 pm
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TC_Chat:
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Q3: What style considerations are there for specific projects? #tcchat |
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5:30 pm
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content2000:
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@CharJTF yes, that's what I was trying to get at exactly on structure #TCchat |
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5:30 pm
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ricksapir:
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SG becomes more important as content provides contribute specific pieces instead of complete deliverables #tcchat |
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5:31 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Remember, I have to watch the clock and sometimes move things along. Not trying to cut off any disc. You can keep going on any topic #tcchat |
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5:32 pm
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content2000:
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@ricksapir Yes! xml/topic based chunks reused across docs makes it more important to follow that consistent style #tcchat |
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5:32 pm
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techcommdood:
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@content2000 You mean *using*... owner of the SG needs to be the one maintaining. One owner, not many. Many can suggest. #tcchat |
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5:34 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Owner of the SG also applies to owner of the doc templates. Whoever creates those incorp decisions made for SG. #tcchat |
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5:35 pm
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content2000:
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project style-guides-again, focused terminology/feature names, structure/outline. Can get more specific than the company-wide SG #tcchat |
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5:35 pm
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2moroDocs:
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So, some SG reqs built right into templates. (con't) #tcchat |
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5:35 pm
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techcommdood:
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@2moroDocs I hate style "discussions" in meetings, unless meeting for that purpose. Lots of pretense/opinion/noise; peacock parade. #tcchat |
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5:36 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Ex: you can create "blank" pgs/topics that have proc steps, etc that writers can use, cut & paste, delete, etc. Built right in #tcchat |
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5:36 pm
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content2000:
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@techcommdood good point. SG discussions can get nit-picky. Need to balance customer needs (what's important to them, not to us) #tcchat |
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5:36 pm
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CharJTF:
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#tcchat You can build all sorts of info into template. Just make sure people use it to create doc (not assign it after). |
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5:37 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@techcommdood Good point. Also, good to determine a schedule. For ex: disc (if necessary) only every 6 mos or so #tcchat |
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5:37 pm
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techcommdood:
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@2moroDocs Or use structured environment where it's all built in w/o adding cut/paste errors and preferential sidestepping. #tcchat |
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5:37 pm
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GlobalScript:
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@2moroDocs Or use structured environment where it's all built in w/o adding cut/paste errors and preferential sidestepping. #tcchat |
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5:37 pm
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kemulholland:
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@techcommdood Agree. Good to schedule style guide discussions monthly, to formalize how the SG is kept current. #tcchat |
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5:38 pm
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content2000:
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another biggie - SG needs to reflect medium customers view info in. Web diff. from print, diff. from mobile access #tcchat |
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5:38 pm
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2moroDocs:
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One thing is for sure: you can't tinker too much with SGs once made. Too much work to chg templates, user confusion, etc. Also maint #tcchat |
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5:38 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Maintenance always a major consideration #tcchat |
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5:40 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@content2000 Agreed. The more generic, the better #tcchat |
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5:40 pm
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kemulholland:
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@2moroDocs #tcchat at MumbleCo we had scheduled SG discussions often, template updates to match corporate branding updates. Worked well. |
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5:40 pm
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kmdk:
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@2morodocs Joining #tcchat a bit late. As lone writer (with 1 temp contractor), I get dictator rights on SG. :D |
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5:41 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@kemulholland Makes me think: wonder how many SG revisions might be needed due to real-time & UGC items #tcchat |
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5:42 pm
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2moroDocs:
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These days, do you think TWs need to stay in closer contact w/Corp Comm & legal - & mktg for that matter #tcchat |
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5:42 pm
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kmdk:
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#tcchat Current situation. No SG. Wild West for years. I'm creating/maintaining/managing SG for all re (new) doc templates. |
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5:43 pm
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kemulholland:
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@2moroDocs If SG is a "living doc" & doc team meets 2 discuss monthly, "how many revisions" isn't a worry. #tcchat |
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5:43 pm
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cherimullins:
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Style guides, templates, and models are separate, although templates and models must follow style guide. #tcchat |
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5:43 pm
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CharJTF:
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@2moroDocs Corp Comm should know to stay in touch with TCs. Burden should be on them, not TCs. #tcchat |
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5:43 pm
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kmdk:
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#tcchat When on your own, it's actually an extra challenge to stay structured & not tweak constantly ("only takes a sec"). |
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5:44 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Back to project reqs: think those are mainly terminology requirements #tcchat & what @content2000 said |
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5:44 pm
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tc_pete:
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RT @cherimullins: Style guides, templates, and models are separate, although templates and models must follow style guide. #tcchat |
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5:44 pm
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CharJTF:
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@2moroDocs Diff projects may require additional styles in templates. #tcchat |
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5:45 pm
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kemulholland:
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@CharJTF #tcchat in my experience it never works that way. We live in a world of IS, not SHOULD - so we need to stay visible 2 corp comm. |
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5:45 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@charjtf Good point. Maybe talk to them up front, tell them what u need to know re changes or whatever. Leave it to them #tcchat |
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5:46 pm
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CharJTF:
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@kemulholland May not work that way, but *should*. Silly for you to add more tasks to find out info you *might* need to know. #tcchat |
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5:47 pm
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kemulholland:
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@CharJTF Very true, & still a problem I haven't solved satisfactorily. #tcchat |
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5:47 pm
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2moroDocs:
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There's so much going on these days, & real-time a big issue IMO. Everyone (all depts) need 2 be aware of what each dept needs. #tcchat |
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5:47 pm
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2moroDocs:
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I'd even suggest scheduling monthly meetings with diff depts to see what everyone's dealing with #tcchat |
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5:49 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Other depts need to know that what they consider a "small" chg that "won't take long" to implement could b HUGE for docs 2 implement #tcchat |
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5:49 pm
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techcommdood:
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You tinker prior to style approval. RT @2moroDocs: One thing is for sure: you can't tinker too much with SGs once made. #tcchat |
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5:49 pm
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kmdk:
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@cherimullins Agree. I document SG info happily. Helps to explain today's decisions tomorrow. #tcchat |
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5:49 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Yikes! Quick - @content2000 has a ques. Here goes - #tcchat |
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5:50 pm
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cherimullins:
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It works well to implement a sort of "cascading" style guides & templates to accommodate different uses. #tcchat |
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5:50 pm
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cherimullins:
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RT @CharJTF: Diff projects may require additional styles in templates. #tcchat |
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5:50 pm
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TC_Chat:
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Q4: How do you handle style conventions for UGC refs on corp site so customers know it's UGC content & not corp? #tcchat |
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5:51 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@content2000 If I worded that ques incorrectly, please clarify! #tcchat |
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5:51 pm
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techcommdood:
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Um, ALWAYS. It's not a new need. RT @2moroDocs: These days, do you think TWs need to stay in closer contact w/Corp Comm/legal/mktg #tcchat |
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5:51 pm
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GlobalScript:
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Um, ALWAYS. It's not a new need. RT @2moroDocs: These days, do you think TWs need to stay in closer contact w/Corp Comm/legal/mktg #tcchat |
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5:51 pm
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kmdk:
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@2morodocs 1 of my tasks is to show/prove SG can benefit us all. Show & tell. Strengthens techcomm role in team. #tcchat |
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5:52 pm
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techcommdood:
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#fail RT @kemulholland: @2moroDocs If SG is a "living doc" & doc team meets 2 discuss monthly, "how many revisions" isn't a worry. #tcchat |
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5:52 pm
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techcommdood:
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Disagree. Co-burden. RT @CharJTF: @2moroDocs Corp Comm should know to stay in touch with TCs. Burden should be on them, not TCs. #tcchat |
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5:53 pm
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2moroDocs:
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For project reqs, I always think of those safety manuals. OSHA has strict terminology. *Extremely* impt to get titles/wording right. #tcchat |
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5:53 pm
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kemulholland:
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@techcommdood #tcchat Would love to discuss at length |
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5:53 pm
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CharJTF:
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@techcommdood If Corp Comm changes branding, it should be on them to inform all who use that branding. TCers shouldn't find out... #tcchat |
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5:53 pm
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CharJTF:
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@techcommdood ...by reading blog or newsletter. #tcchat |
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5:54 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Safety manual ex: terms, titles impt for emergency planning, etc. Think of emer response between agencies. Have 2 use correct terms #tcchat |
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5:54 pm
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kmdk:
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#tcchat Agree with @techcommdood: Co-burden between TC & Corp Comm. Must be clear open lines of communication between them. Always. |
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5:54 pm
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kemulholland:
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@techcommdood (erk, fatfingers) - because your POV is always well-considered & if we disagree I can usually learn something from u. #tcchat |
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5:55 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Maybe something like Sarbannes-Oxley has similar reqs. Regulatory situations like that may require strict adherance to SG, esp terms #tcchat |
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5:55 pm
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CharJTF:
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#tcchat I'm not saying there shouldn't be lines of communication. I'm saying that line should go in both directions, not always TC > CC. |
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5:55 pm
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kmdk:
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@2morodocs Last job in regulated industry. I made basic SG to start them off. They were grateful. Too harried to do previously. #tcchat |
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5:55 pm
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techcommdood:
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They shouldn't do that in a vacuum. Period. RT @CharJTF: If Corp Comm changes branding, it should be on them to inform ... #tcchat |
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5:56 pm
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2moroDocs:
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In other words, sometimes style requirements are bigger than you, bigger than your company. Have to follow some things #tcchat |
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5:56 pm
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kmdk:
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@2morodocs Regulated place *did* have terminology db. & strict approval routines. Crucial for regulation & translation (22 lang.) #tcchat |
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5:57 pm
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techcommdood:
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@kemulholland My POV is that if your style guide is ever-changing, you can never use it as intended - consistency. #tcchat |
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5:57 pm
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edmarsh:
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bwahahahaha. ahahahaha! / /RT @techcommdood: They shouldn't do that in a vacuum. Period. #tcchat |
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5:57 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Yikes! 3 mins left. Any other thoughts - esp for @content2000's ques? #tcchat |
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5:58 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Corp Comm can't change branding quickly much these days. Too much going on in the world w/social media #tcchat |
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5:58 pm
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techcommdood:
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Of course it happens, but it's beyond bad. RT @edmarsh: bwahaha... / /RT @techcommdood: They shouldn't do that in a vacuum. Period. #tcchat |
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5:59 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@edmarsh LOL! #tcchat (or is it lowercase? my son says "lol, mom" and rolls his eyes. Another style thought: texting abbreviations #tcchat |
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5:59 pm
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edmarsh:
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@techcommdood agreed, but that assumes techcommers have that kind of input #tcchat |
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6:00 pm
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cherimullins:
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Onus is on all. Change communication s/b institutionalized. Re: #tcchat Burden on [Corp Comm to communicate changes], not TCs. |
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6:01 pm
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techcommdood:
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@edmarsh This is why I am in the business of doing what I do (and I do it well). :-) #tcchat |
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6:02 pm
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2moroDocs:
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The hour is up. Already! This was fast today. I had trouble keeping up #tcchat Will have 2 check later to see what I missed |
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6:02 pm
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edmarsh:
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#tcchat we have a standards committee, not sure when it meets, who's on it, what it does. i believe it's volunteer, and meets after hours. |
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6:02 pm
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techcommdood:
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+1 RT @cherimullins: Onus is on all. Change comms s/b institutionalized. Re: #tcchat Burden on [Corp Comm to communicate changes], not TCs. |
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6:03 pm
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techcommdood:
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PLz explain... RT @2moroDocs: Corp Comm can't change branding quickly much these days. Too much going on in the world w/social media #tcchat |
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6:03 pm
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kemulholland:
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@cherimullins #tcchat In many cases this requires fixing organizational problems that go beyond corp comm & tech comm. |
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6:03 pm
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2moroDocs:
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There sure was a lot of ground covered today re SGs. I thank everyone for ur participation & helpful thoughts. #tcchat |
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6:04 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Can keep discussing all this if you'd like, of course #tcchat If anyone has good links, pls post them #tcchat |
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6:04 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@content2000 I'll look at this later & bring it up in S2 as well #tcchat |
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6:05 pm
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cherimullins:
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My forte! @kemulholland: #tcchat In many cases this requires fixing organizational problems that go beyond corp comm & tech comm. |
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6:05 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@techcommdood I mean that companies need 2 b aware of possible chgs to brand due to feedback by ppl in FB, T, etc. #tcchat (con't) |
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6:06 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@techcommdood Did you see what happened when The Gap rolled out a new logo, and everyone slammed it? They ended up changing it back #tcchat |
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6:07 pm
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2moroDocs:
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I have to say, I agreed with the crowd on that logo change. Amazing how quickly it changed back #tcchat |
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6:09 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@cherimullins Exc example of when the "communicator" role of TWs comes into play. We r sometimes the go-between #tcchat |
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6:11 pm
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kemulholland:
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Great #tcchat - thanks, everyone (especially @2moroDocs)! @techcommdood wd luv 2 switch 2 long-form comm & continue discussing l8r. |
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6:13 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Was an excellent discussion in S1 about style guides in #tcchat just now. Many topics & considerations raised. Ck trans later #techcomm |
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6:16 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@kmdk Good points. We didn't even touch on localization considerations #tcchat |
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6:17 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@kemulholland TY, Karen. Great input, as always #tcchat |
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6:19 pm
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2moroDocs:
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I really think 2day's S1 discussion will help new writers bld SGs, & existing writers 2 b aware of the many considerations 2 address #tcchat |
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6:27 pm
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rahelab:
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RT @CharJTF: #tcchat You can build all sorts of info into template. Just make sure people use it to create doc (not assign it after). |
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6:37 pm
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techcommdood:
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@2moroDocs Yes. Gap was classic case of brand change in a vacuum/not knowing their customers' likes, expectations #tcchat |
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6:38 pm
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robocolumn:
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Sorry. Was not able to make today's #tcchat but will read the transcript and tweet any thoughts after. |
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7:00 pm
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2moroDocs:
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@robocolumn No worries! We missed ya. See you at another #tcchat, no doubt. :) |
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7:01 pm
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2moroDocs:
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Am seeing some tweets still coming in. Feel free to comment throughout the day. This is topic of the day #tcchat |
